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30 comments

1 thejcube  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:35:49am

So how many people has this clown killed, anyway?

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:15:13pm

Of course, the Medal of Honor winner in this case did kill one of the jihadis carrying away his friend and shot the other. This was after he ran into withering fire, was shot twice himself, and he already saved another comrade.

Killingt is not what uncommon valor really means. There was the sub skipper who got the Medal of Honor by sacrificing himself ordering a dive to save his boat - when he was wounded on the deck.

Uncommon valor is giving oneself for one's fellows in a way that even the bravest would unlikely do or even be expected to do. It means that in the heat of the moment, under the worst situations, they only thought of saving their fellows and did something that was possibly or even actually suicidal and saved those men.

The fact that morons like this wingnut can even dare talk about such great men makes me want to vomit.

3 Lidane  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:21:44pm

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

The fact that morons like this wingnut can even dare talk about such great men makes me want to vomit.

Seriously. It's a Medal of Honor, not a Medal of Mass Slaughter. What Sgt. Giunta did is absolutely worth the MoH, and screw this wingnut asshole for suggesting otherwise.

4 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:27:14pm

I'm just gonna cut and past a good chunk from here...

They hadn’t traveled a quarter mile before the silence was shattered. It was an ambush, so close that the cracks of the guns and the whizz of the bullets were simultaneous. Tracer fire hammered the ridge at hundreds of rounds per minute — “more,” Sal said later, “than the stars in the sky.”

The Apache gunships above saw it all, but couldn’t engage with the enemy so close to our soldiers. The next platoon heard the shooting, but were too far away to join the fight in time.

And the two lead men were hit by enemy fire and knocked down instantly. When the third was struck in the helmet and fell to the ground, Sal charged headlong into the wall of bullets to pull him to safety behind what little cover there was. As he did, Sal was hit twice — one round slamming into his body armor, the other shattering a weapon slung across his back.

They were pinned down, and two wounded Americans still lay up ahead. So Sal and his comrades regrouped and counterattacked. They threw grenades, using the explosions as cover to run forward, shooting at the muzzle flashes still erupting from the trees. Then they did it again. And again. Throwing grenades, charging ahead. Finally, they reached one of their men. He’d been shot twice in the leg, but he had kept returning fire until his gun jammed.

As another soldier tended to his wounds, Sal sprinted ahead, at every step meeting relentless enemy fire with his own. He crested a hill alone, with no cover but the dust kicked up by the storm of bullets still biting into the ground. There, he saw a chilling sight: the silhouettes of two insurgents carrying the other wounded American away — who happened to be one of Sal’s best friends. Sal never broke stride. He leapt forward. He took aim. He killed one of the insurgents and wounded the other, who ran off.

Sal found his friend alive, but badly wounded. Sal had saved him from the enemy — now he had to try to save his life. Even as bullets impacted all around him, Sal grabbed his friend by the vest and dragged him to cover. For nearly half an hour, Sal worked to stop the bleeding and help his friend breathe until the MEDEVAC arrived to lift the wounded from the ridge. American gunships worked to clear the enemy from the hills. And with the battle over, First Platoon picked up their gear and resumed their march through the valley. They continued their mission.

Fischer is a punk. He's not fit to shine that soldier's shoes, let alone speak that soldier's name.

5 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:28:34pm

re: #4 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm just gonna cut and past a good chunk from here...

Fischer is a punk. He's not fit to shine that soldier's shoes, let alone speak that soldier's name.

NO shit. If he were to mouth like that to anyone in a uniform, I guarantee he would be shitting his own teeth.

6 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:31:36pm
why 'feminine' is his adjective of choice for everything he hates

A classic fascist trait, akshully.

7 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:32:40pm

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

I disagree. I think most military members have far more discipline and self control than this little puke Fischer. They'd probably just give him a look that would make him shit his pants.

8 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:33:08pm

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

During this era, there was a salient, overarching belief grounded in science that females were biologically inferior to men[2]. It is for this reason that a prevalence of feminine elements in a person corresponded to an actual regression of the human being on the evolutionary scale. It is for this reason that the active pursuit of vehement exercising and modern sports activities was strongly suggested as a measure to increase masculinity and combat any signs of femininity in one's lifestyle.[2]. In other words, it was through the indoctrination of the belief that weak males were inferior like females that Mussolini raised the importance of sport and excersise, which he managed to list as one of the essential quotas for qualifying as an acceptable male in the New Italy.

Unsurprisingly, the effort by Mussolini to exalt the inferiority of females in relation to men created an imbalance in the public sphere. Women were forced and coerced to stay and remain in the domestic sphere, and the public generated an environment where this was deemed a convention: countless novels, moralizing works and articles of all sorts of publication aimed to exalt the woman as wife and mother and extinguish any spark of the terrible modernist conflagration. [8]. In this way, in the name of maintaining status quo, women were rendered into means of achieving and maintaining male supremacy: a representation of the 'new woman' in pathological terms was advanced in order to trace a line between orthodoxy and deviance, but the description of a monstrous figure devoid of feminity, rather than presenting a solution to the problem, often achieved the effect of amplifying the very sense of alarm that the problem itself provoked" [2]. Females were forced to remain as figures of antiquity, stationary, serving as an unchanging foundation onto which males stood on to maintain their supremacy. The theme of rejecting feminism has been prevailing throughout Italy's history, dating back to the days of peasant farmers and feudal lords.

9 Qabal  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:39:25pm

Does TPM have a link to the actual Bryan Fischer article/comments? I looked but it didn't seem to be in there, and I went and looked on his blog at AFA (holding my nose) and couldn't find it there.

I'd love to be able to repost the direct link to some friends of mine, or a google cache.

10 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:40:06pm

The sergeant is a hero and Fischer badmouths him? What is with Bryan Fischer and furthermore how does a guy like him headline a values summit when he goes around badmouthing MoH winners. Would like to see this asshole placed in the same situation the sergeant was. Bet he wouldn't make out so well. What a prick.

11 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:41:44pm

What a revoltingly ignorant piece of excrement this Fischer is. Most Medals of Honor have been awarded for saving comrades. Fischer is probably not aware of Gary Gordon and Randall Shugart, the Delta Force snipers who received the MoH posthumously for volunteering to secure a helicopter crash site during the Battle of Mogadishu. They didn't do this because they wanted to kill a lot of Somalis (though they did do that) they did it because they wanted to save the crew from being torn apart by an enormous mob of enraged Somalis.

12 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:43:05pm

What an idiot who shows his lack of historical knowledge about the MoH and its recipients. The MoH has been issued to helicopter pilots who risked tremendous ground fire to rescue injured soldiers and to Navy Chaplains who rescued Marines who were injured putting themselves in harm's way to save their fellow soldiers, sailors, and Marines (MoH winners in Vietnam - just comb through that list).

Navy SEAL Lieutenant Michael P. Murphy received the award for exposing himself to hostile fire in order to make a call for help after his SEAL team was attacked in June 2005.


All of the MoH recipients are worthy of honor and respect for their contributions that go above and beyond the call of duty and ordinary events.

Oh, and as for Giunta's MoH? He received it because he not only called in assistance, but Giunta stepped into the line of fire to pull a wounded soldier back to safety, and then engaged two insurgents who were carrying away another wounded soldier, killing one and wounding the other. So, Fischer can't even get the basics of Giunta's commendation right.

Frak Fischer.

13 Ericus58  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:43:39pm

"The whole point of the Medal of Honor is to recognise exceptional valor. Exceptional. There's nothing particularly valorous in just killing another person. What is valorous is putting your life at risk to defend your fellow soldiers and your country, which is exactly what Sgt Giunta was doing."

Spot On.
Sgt Giunta very much exemplifies Valor.

14 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:44:58pm

re: #9 Qabal

Does TPM have a link to the actual Bryan Fischer article/comments? I looked but it didn't seem to be in there, and I went and looked on his blog at AFA (holding my nose) and couldn't find it there.

I'd love to be able to repost the direct link to some friends of mine, or a google cache.

This appears to be the original article:

The Feminization of the Medal of Honor

...on a site with a thoroughly Orwellian name.

15 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:46:37pm

re: #13 Ericus58

If you ask most WWII infantryman about valor and bravery, they talk about the medics.

16 Randy W. Weeks  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:47:37pm

I think I'll invite him to my American Legion Saturday night.

He can explain this to the guys down there.

The piece of shit.

17 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:50:29pm

re: #9 Qabal

Here is a cached link to Fischer's piece.

18 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 12:57:48pm

This is also the guy who suggested we kill off the grizzly bears, as well as being the 'author' of this piece.

19 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:18:18pm

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

I guarantee he would be shitting his own teeth.

Heh, I've never heard that expression before. It's definitely a keeper.

20 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:25:55pm

re: #14 publicityStunted

This appears to be the original article:

The Feminization of the Medal of Honor

...on a site with a thoroughly Orwellian name.

What a silly name for a site. Every good wingnut knows there's no such thing as a moral liberal. /

These sanctimonious creeps make me want to hurl.

21 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:29:49pm
So, when is the right-wing, who claim to be the only people who love the troops, going to condemn Fischer for spitting on Medal of Honor awardees like this? *crickets*

Exactly. Freaking hypocrites.

re: #8 Sergey Romanov

Interesting, thanks.

22 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:31:27pm

re: #19 CuriousLurker

Heh, I've never heard that expression before. It's definitely a keeper.


One of my favorites comes from the late Phil Hartman, while playing the role of Frank Sinatra on SNL.

He points his finger at Sting and says "I got chunks of guys like you in my stool".

23 CuriousLurker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 1:51:18pm

re: #22 Slumbering Behemoth

LOL, another keeper!

One time, when I was a teenager, me and a friend snuck off to meet some boys. When we were inevitably caught and one of them started to mouth off to my dad (who stood 6'2' and weighed about 200 lbs), he looked at the kid and—with that steely look that only accompanies a promise, as opposed to a threat—calmly said, "Listen you little S.O.B., if you open your mouth one more time, I'm gonna grab you by your asshole and turn you inside out. Understand?" The bravado evaporated: *gulp* "Yessir."

His other favorite was, "If you don't cut that crap out, they're gonna have to take both of us to the hospital in order to cut my foot out of your ass."

Seeing as how he was a WWII vet, I'm positive he would've expressed similar sentiments about Mr. Fischer. Man, I miss my dad.

24 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 2:45:22pm

Bryan Fischer, to quote a line from Good Morning, Vietnam, you suck the sweat off a dead man's balls...you aren't man enough to carry Sgt. Salvatore Giunta's duffel, much less talk shit about him (and, by extension, all recipients of the Medal of Honor).

25 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 3:45:40pm

It's all about getting the job done, regardless of consequences to self. Sometimes killing enemy soldiers is the first priority, sometimes saving one's own is a priority. Either way counts. It always has.

While leading his platoon on December 27, 1944, in savage house-to-house fighting through the fortress town of Sigolsheim, France, he attacked a building through a street swept by withering mortar and automatic weapons fire. He was hit and severely wounded in the arm and shoulder; but he charged into the house alone and killed its 2 defenders. Hurling smoke and fragmentation grenades before him, he reached the next house and stormed inside, killing 2 and capturing 11 of the enemy. He continued leading his platoon in the extremely dangerous task of clearing hostile troops from strong points along the street until he reached a building held by fanatical Nazi troops. Although suffering from wounds which had rendered his left arm useless, he advanced on this strongly defended house, and after blasting out a wall with bazooka fire, charged through a hail of bullets. Wedging his submachinegun under his uninjured arm, he rushed into the house through the hole torn by his rockets, killed 5 of the enemy and forced the remaining 12 to surrender. As he emerged to continue his fearless attack, he was again hit and critically wounded. In agony and with 1 eye pierced by a shell fragment, he shouted for his men to follow him to the next house. He was determined to stay in the fighting, and remained at the head of his platoon until forcibly evacuated. By his disregard for personal safety, his aggressiveness while suffering from severe wounds, his determined leadership and superb courage, 1st Lt. Whiteley killed 9 Germans, captured 23 more and spearheaded an attack which cracked the core of enemy resistance in a vital area.


Or this:

He piloted a B-24 bomber in a one-plane strike against a Japanese convoy in the South China Sea on the night of 26 October 1944. Taking the enemy force of 12 ships escorted by at least 2 destroyers by surprise, he made 1 bombing run at 600 feet, scoring a near miss on 1 warship and escaping without drawing fire. He circled. and fully realizing that the convoy was thoroughly alerted and would meet his next attack with a barrage of antiaircraft fire, began a second low-level run which culminated in 2 direct hits on a large tanker. A hail of steel from Japanese guns, riddled the bomber, knocking out 2 engines, damaging a third, crippling the hydraulic system, puncturing 1 gasoline tank, ripping uncounted holes in the aircraft, and wounding the copilot; but by magnificent display of flying skill, Maj. Carswell controlled the plane's plunge toward the sea and carefully forced it into a halting climb in the direction of the China shore. On reaching land, where it would have been possible to abandon the staggering bomber, one of the crew discovered that his parachute had been ripped by flak and rendered useless; the pilot, hoping to cross mountainous terrain and reach a base, continued onward until the third engine failed. He ordered the crew to bail out while he struggled to maintain altitude and, refusing to save himself, chose to remain with his comrade and attempt a crash landing. He died when the airplane struck a mountainside and burned. With consummate gallantry and intrepidity, Maj. Carswell gave his life in a supreme effort to save all members of his crew. His sacrifice, far beyond that required of him, was in keeping with the traditional bravery of America's war heroes.
26 Steve Dutch  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 4:11:14pm

Retired E8 here, two deployments (Gulf 91 and Bosnia 96). And Chicken Hawk has done exactly what?

Seriously, look up the Medal of Honor citations. Early awards have sketchy records and many would now be given other awards. But a dozen of Major Reno's men at the Little Big Horn were awarded the medal for getting water for their unit. George Burnett, 1881, "Saved the life of a dismounted soldier." William H. Carter, 1881, "Rescued, with the voluntary assistance of 2 soldiers, the wounded from under a heavy fire." MOH's for Wounded Knee are a sore spot with Native Americans, but Joshua Herzog got the MOH for rescuing his commanding officer. Benjamin Baker, Dennis Bell, Oscar Brookin, Ulysses Buzzard: Spanish American War. Albert Baesel, Charles Barker: WWI. Richard McCool, William McGee, World War II. Thomas Hudner and John Koelsch, Korea. James Taylor and Gerald Young, Vietnam. Gary Gordon and Randall Shughart, Somalia. Oh, yeah, never been any MOH's for saving lives.

For people who like to blather about the lessons of history, these folks are stupefyingly ignorant.

27 avanti  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 7:32:00pm

Words fail me after reading this thread. I can think of nothing vile enough to say about Bryan Fischer.

28 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 17, 2010 8:04:42pm

re: #15 Obdicut

If you ask most WWII infantryman about valor and bravery, they talk about the medics.

I have a very good book by John Keegan, A History of Warfare.

One story stick in my mind. The commander of the 3rd Commando was in awe of the stretcher bearers of his unit. All were conscientious objectors who regularly exposed themselves to enemy fire to rescue their comrades.

Courage doesn't always require carrying a gun, Mr. Fischer.

29 Steve Dutch  Thu, Nov 18, 2010 5:02:15am

re: #28 Romantic Heretic

Thanks for this post because I forgot to bring this up. Did you know there were three conscientious objectors who won the Medal of Honor? All were medics. Desmond Doss won his MOH in WWII. Thomas W. Bennett and Joseph G. LaPointe, Jr. won theirs in Vietnam, both posthumously. LaPointe has a housing complex at Fort Campbell named after him, as well as a heliport at Fort Benning. Because both places are the sorts of places that celebrate "feminization."

The people who pay attention to the likes of Fischer are disgraces to their country. Fischer has discarded the last rags of loyalty to America.

30 The Mongoose  Thu, Nov 18, 2010 1:08:19pm

"So, when is the right-wing, who claim to be the only people who love the troops, going to condemn Fischer for spitting on Medal of Honor awardees like this? *crickets*"

I'm fairly right-wing. I stay with this site, which once reflected my opinions rather strongly, to read alternative views of the world. And I condemn Bryan Fischer for spitting on Sgt. Giunta and his heroic actions.


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